>> i don't know that even biden could really. biden has been a very good vice president and if things keep going, he doesn't have her star power. he doesn't have her ability to attract money. he doesn't have the excitement that she'll offer to democratic base voters. okay we elected the first african-american president. now let's finish and elect the first woman president now. i don't think anybody has that kind of calling card. >> it comes down to the money. the one thing the clintons can do is raise money. that may endear them. the money game is certainly different than what it was before. what about that? >> i think that's right. and she's not going to have outside of biden, who i don't think is really stiff competition for her. i don't think outside of that there is. it's not going to be like in 2008 she was one of three in the top tier. she's going to be the top tier in 2016 if she decides to run. but the circumstances have to be right for her.